@kdhartfiel respectfully, I have to question the assertion that God prefers we learn apart from “the fire”. Even Jesus was subjected to suffering and it was part of Gods plan (Hebrews 5:8 - Jesus learned obedience through the things he suffered).
If we say that only those who are thick-headed have to endure persecution - and that God would prefer they learn another way, it dismisses a huge, faithful part of the body of Christ.
@kdhartfiel Finally - in the sermon on the mount, Jesus Himself taught: “blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven” (Matthew 5:10). I have to conclude that suffering and persecution are critical elements of the Christian experience and are God’s best for us.
@katharos @kdhartfiel
I think that suffering draws us closer to our Lord. I think here in the west it might be necessary for this persecution to come to draw us to him and separate the wheat from the chaff!
@katharos Yeshua knew that there would be tribulation and persecution in this world. Yes, we draw close to the Lord when times like this happen. But, do you want your own children to go through persecution and torture and evil? if you don't want your own children to go through these things, why do you think that God would want us to deliberately. God loves us and it is not his will for the church to be so persecuted and put to death. These things will happen because there's evil in the world.
@katharos most of the body of Messiah expects to go through bad stuff. They have a dirty filter on how they see God. God wants to love on us and bless us more than we think he does. He is so much better than we think he is.
We can't control the outside forces that come against us, but we can have authority over our own soul areas and circumstances in many ways