@sinbach I know the obvious answer is that he's wrong, but the more I've sat here and thought about it the more I think he may have miscommunicated.
I suppose MAYBE it's possible that he's suggesting that God sees our potential - the version of ourselves that he created us to be without all our mess and our sin, and in some way that is who we really are in his sight.
But that only goes so far - the only way we get there is by dying to self, renewing our mind, and ultimately by being *transformed* to become more like Christ.
It's actually an interesting conversation
@bethany my knee jerk reaction is also to join the mob and say how wrong he is, but when i think more about what he said, I can't say that I passionately disagree as much as other believers feel I should.
Are we created by the Creator? Are we not created in the image of God? Does God create us imperfect? Is the image of God not perfect?
What if the "New Creation" as referred to in the Bible refers to resurrection of Christ in us and our sinful man being crucified? Would it not reason then that the sinful nature that we have was not created by God, but is removed by God and when it is removed, we are that which He created at birth? What if the us - the REAL us - is not the sinful man, but sin steals our identity, thus when our sinful nature is crucified - we are made new to be the one we were created to be from the beginning?
Just a thought.
@sinbach that's exactly how I feel, interestingly. Is it a potentially damaging message without context? Yes. I think so. I recently heard a pastor online say "it doesn't matter if you don't believe in God, because God believes in you".... I almost vomited.
So the suggestion of perfection I think is unhelpful. But if his point really is entirely wrong, that would remove every aspect of individuality from every believer. We'd be clones who all looked and acted the same, which is not God's design. Are we transformed as we become more like Christ? Yes. But by doing so, we die to self, to flesh and to the world and we're left with who God ultimately intended us to be. I think.
Just a thought.
@sinbach I think almost everything is worthy of unpacking more and possibly debating with one another 😁
@bethany I did a podcast on this subject. like you, I am not defending the intentions of this pastor, BUT the subject matter is worthy of unpacking more and possibly debating with one another.